NECTO Studio: what it means for current IDE users?

[Toley]

First of all I 'd like to congratulate you for this new IDE it looks very promising.
Maybe it's too soon for these questions but they will have to be answered at some point.

1- Is it the end of life of classic compilers and IDE?

2- Will there be updates of the classic IDE in future?

3- Is a new licence (paid) will be required for existing users to use the new IDE?

4- Is it required a VTFT licence for every compiler? Or only 1 VTFT licence will be used for every compiler like before?

Thank you for the clarifications.

[filip]

Hi Toley,

Thank you for questions, I will try to answer them precisely :

1- Is it the end of life of classic compilers and IDE?

We don't recommend classic compilers for the new design (for now this applies only to the classic mikroC PRO for ARM), but we have in plans to keep them "alive" for some time.

2- Will there be updates of the classic IDE in future?

The classic compilers (not supported by the NECTO Studio) will be updated only with the really necessary fixes, no improvements are planned.

3- Is a new license (paid) will be required for existing users to use the new IDE?

1. Users who purchased license in 2019. will get free of charge license for NECTO.

2. Users who purchased license prior to 2019. will have the following offer during the promotional period :
- A 80% discount on the Perpetual License if purchased in December of 2019,
- A 60% discount on the Perpetual License if purchased in January of 2020,
- A 40% discount on the Perpetual License if purchased in February of 2020.

3. The potential new users can take advantage of our early-bird offer and get NECTO for 30% off.

4- Is it required a VTFT license for every compiler? Or only 1 VTFT license will be used for every compiler like before

One Visual TFT license will be used for all compilers, like before.

Regards,
Filip.

[lololafripouille]

Hello filip,

Thank you for clarification.
I have one more question : What is the policy for those who bought a USB dongle ?
I saw nothing about dongle in the product page.

Thank you

[Toley]

Thank you filip,

- A 80% discount on the Perpetual License if purchased in December of 2019,

This is a very fair offer, how can we get it? It do not appear as a purchasing option.

[filip]

Hi,

Please write an e-mail to our Sales Department at sales (att) mikroe (dot) com regarding this offer.

Regards,
Filip.

[Toley]

Thank you filip,

I will wait for the special offer to become officially available
https://www.mikroe.com/blog/special-necto-offers

[Toley]

Hi filip,

Perpetual license

Feeling confident and excited to be part of the embedded engineer's core daily? Are you on a great path to make embedded programming your career? A Perpetual License grants you perpetual use of a specific version of our software products. A license includes a 12-month maintained period, in which you have access to updates, new versions. Come back after the expiring period, and we will offer you the 80% discount on your next renewal.

Is it mean that we have to renew licence every year???

[nlukic]

Hello Toley,

As it says in perpetual license description you have quoted

A license includes a 12-month maintained period, in which you have access to updates, new versions. Come back after the expiring period, and we will offer you the 80% discount on your next renewal.

After expiring period, you will still have rights to use the Necto without a fee, but if you want to receive updates, you will have to pay for renewal with mentioned discounts.

Regards,

[Toley]

Hi nlukic,

We don't have the same definition of "Perpetual"
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/perpetual

continuing or enduring forever; everlasting.
lasting an indefinitely long time: perpetual snow.
continuing or continued without intermission or interruption; ceaseless: a perpetual stream of visitors all day.
blooming almost continuously throughout the season or the year.

How much these updates will cost? The price of a full licence?
Anyway I think it's a big mistake to charge for updates, you will lost a lot of users.
It does not make sense to pay updates for a software who receive update once every 2-3 years.

[nlukic]

Hello Toley,

I'm not sure we understand each other, so I will try to clarify our position:

A perpetual license will allow the customer to use the licensed software indefinitely. For the first year, the perpetual license also entitles the customer to download all updates to the software.

After the one year period ends, the customer can choose to remain with the last version downloaded or to purchase a one year updates, for 20% of the license price. There are no penalties for letting updates lapse for a while before purchasing an annual package.

Our goal is to have up-to-date and market competitive product. We want to provide software updates more frequently. The previous model of selling Mikroelektronika software as one time payment, due number of compilers and high pace of MCU vendors releasing new products, simply became unsustainable.

[rus51]

Hi Toley
Hi nlukic

I support Toley in this matter. I feel that calling a software licence 'perpetual' and then charging an annual fee for updates is deceptive behaviour to say the least. It may even be false advertising which is a criminal offence in many countries.

There is a further point I wish to make.

Many people (myself included) spent many hours writing test programmes and other diagnostic aids to find faults in the previous generation of ME compilers. We sent our findings to ME and often waited months or years for faults to be rectified. We found the faults and reported them because we felt that we would benefit from any improvement in the compilers because we had free access to any updates to the compilers. It appears that this will not be the case in the future.

My question to ME is as follows:
Because ME will now charge for updates after a year of Necto compiler use, will ME now pay users (by credits against the cost of future annual fees) to find faults in the Necto IDE/Compiler? It seems fair to me.

rus51

[Toley]

Hello Toley,

I'm not sure we understand each other, so I will try to clarify our position:

A perpetual license will allow the customer to use the licensed software indefinitely. For the first year, the perpetual license also entitles the customer to download all updates to the software.

After the one year period ends, the customer can choose to remain with the last version downloaded or to purchase a one year updates, for 20% of the license price. There are no penalties for letting updates lapse for a while before purchasing an annual package.

Our goal is to have up-to-date and market competitive product. We want to provide software updates more frequently. The previous model of selling Mikroelektronika software as one time payment, due number of compilers and high pace of MCU vendors releasing new products, simply became unsustainable.

I understand your point of view but sorry nothing make me believe that you will provide more frequent updates. Your actual road map is already clear that it will take more than 2 years to cover all the compilers you offer. So 2 years will be (like actually) the pace of individual release.

And since you will loose many hobby users, it will be less profitable than the actual format. I know it's a business decision and only time will tell but I don't think mE compilers will live another 10 years in that way. You are in a business were everything is given free and mostly open source by all the major industries (Microchip, ST, NXP, Arduino offer free compilers). You need to provide BIG BIG advantages over the other to make peoples pay these amounts, and this is actually not the case since many critical libraries are still missing (like DMA and CRC) and every source are closed.

[rajkovic]

Hi Toley
My question to ME is as follows:
Because ME will now charge for updates after a year of Necto compiler use, will ME now pay users (by credits against the cost of future annual fees) to find faults in the Necto IDE/Compiler? It seems fair to me.
rus51

I am perfectly fine with this suggestion and will support the case.
We could issue credit for each bug that is reported and verified. Probably we need to define some straightforward way of how this is implemented. But I think it is completely fair to compensate people who
contribute to improving and rising of NECTO. Probably also it sholud include credits for packages uploaded on libstock.
I will try to get back with a proposal and to get green light from higher management in a week.

[nlukic]

Hello Toley,
Thank you for delivering your opinion here.

I understand your point of view but sorry nothing make me believe that you will provide more frequent updates.
Your actual road map is already clear that it will take more than 2 years to cover all the compilers you offer.
So 2 years will be (like actually) the pace of individual release.

We do not want you or anybody else to believe in the statement. We want you to come, to see, to try. After all, if you find out that we do not deliver value with a release in one year, you have an option: do not buy a renewal. Your version will work endlessly. There are plenty of years planning and working, and we feel confident that we are going to manage this. First, there is just one IDE, and all compilers are going to be under NECTO Studio => every update od IDE will be immediately available to all users.

And since you will loose many hobby users, it will be less profitable than the actual format. I know it's a business decision and only time will tell but I don't think mE compilers will live another 10 years in that way. You are in a business were everything is given free and mostly open source by all the major industries (Microchip, ST, NXP, Arduino offer free compilers). You need to provide BIG BIG advantages over the other to make peoples pay these amounts, and this is actually not the case since many critical libraries are still missing (like DMA and CRC) and every source are closed.

You are straight on the point; everything changed in the industry, so we do not have a choice but to try to reach a position that has value for customers and us. We think that subscription licensing type (available soon), starting from $5 per month, is a fair offer, even for a hobbyist. And as you have said, it is only by providing the BIG BIG difference. So, there is a plan that NECTO works for any MCU, any click, any board with the single code base. That means we have to do SDK and IDE to allow all kinds of combinations of MCU, boards, and compilers. Also, if you go to folders, you are going to notice that we have gone open source for mikroSDK, and that's a general direction that we are going to take. And about free tools, this is my thought: there is no free tool - just different people is paying for it, and different people have influence.

Regards,

[Toley]

First, there is just one IDE, and all compilers are going to be under NECTO Studio => every update od IDE will be immediately available to all users.

So the IDE updates should be free to all users all the time. It's ok to pay for new feature or new MCU but not for IDE bugfix. Will it be the case? Or you want us to believe there will be no IDE bugs after the first year of release?